labels and sex and gen versus shipper

[escritoireazul]

Here's where I've continued this discussion: labels and sex and gen versus shipper part two.




February 20, 1:47 p.m.

I've been thinking about femslash and male slash and het, and stories with sex in each of them. I've actually been thinking about this a lot, in both my fanfic and non-fanfic writing, but the story I posted last night (lineage and the Slayer line) really brought some of it to head because it was written for a femslash community (femslash_minis) as a femslash request, and yet there's only a little kiss (and a little shared space and perception, but still). Could it be a gen Faith story? I think so, yes, despite the kiss and Faith's attraction to Kendra.

Originally I had intended to make it more sexual, but it didn't fit into this piece, this chunk of dream-memory. (I've been inspired today, while thinking these thoughts, to start a sequel, a later dream, maybe during the season four finale. I think the first Slayer being in their dreams would have maybe shaken up the Slayer-self, and Faith might have dreamed, too, but the first Slayer was busy, so who else would Faith dream about?)

But when you (generic) write femslash and don't include the sex (detailed or not), does it come across like you're uncomfortable with the female/female sex? Does it do this in male slash? What about het? Where do the lines cross between gen and shippy, character sketch and slash story?

Oh crap, work to do. I just wanted to throw this out before I forgot to talk about it, and I'm interested in your thoughts.



Edited to Add (February 20, 3:10 p.m.):

This is a comment I left below, in response to something docmichelle said, which has helped me better understand the questions I want to ask (sort of).

You know, I think I have two different questions going on here, and you're helping me split them. Thank you.

One question is, where does the line between gen and shipper split? The story in question is a Slayer dream Faith has when she's Called, in which Kendra passes her power on, and the closest thing to a shippy moment is the way their bodies combine in the dreamscape. Mostly it is a gen story, a Faith character study, and I feel bad about it, because it was for a femslash challenge, and it just didn't work out the way I wanted, but with only a week to write it, I didn't have time to start a second story which might have worked better. And this really isn't a question, is it? Faith is a little attracted to the combination, and to Kendra herself, but that's it. Should it be labeled femslash? Would it be labeled if Kendra was replaced with, say, Xander? (Ignore the impossibilities of that.)

The second is how sex fits into the story, and really doesn't have anything at all to do with this, it's much more a question about the genre my original writing is in, and the precedent set by other writers, and probably belongs in the other journal completely. Hmmm.

Comments

[pressdbtwnpages.livejournal.com]

I've never thought that clicking on a story implied guaranteed sex, regardless of whether it's het or slash. All I expect of slash is that there be attraction by one person towards another person of the same gender. It doesn't have to be reciprocated, it doesn't have to draw any conclusion, but the attraction must be there to qualify slash. Otherwise it's genfic, which is fine, but it isn't slash.

If it's rated NC-17/Adult and DOSEN'T contain sex, or contains a passing reference to sex, THAT irritates me. It isn't a big part of this discussion, but it's a pet peeve that's been popping up a lot lately. Basically, though, I think you can write whatever the hell you want as long as it's labeled clearly. PG slash is fine, NC-17 slash is fine, slash labeled NC-17 with nary a kiss to be found not so fine.

[escritoireazul.livejournal.com]

These are all really good points, especially about how the attraction can be one-sided but still qualify as slash. Do you think gen fic becomes slash if the main storyline about the main character is not about the attraction to someone of the same sex, but it is a side plot? Labeling is so interesting, I think, and can be so strange at the same time.

Do you think ratings should come with more detail? For example, NC-17 for violence or NC-17 for graphic sex or R for language and violence. Would that help stop the label problem? Also, do you think some slash stories are labeled higher than they deserve because slash is a more "taboo" topic like graphic sex or violence? (Obviously, I don't think it is and wouldn't label like that, but it makes me wonder if that's part of the thought process behind labeling it higher.) Or do you think it's literally just a wrong label?

[pressdbtwnpages.livejournal.com]

The whole label conversation is funny because what I want as a reader is so different from what I want to do as a writer.

As a reader I want to be able to tell from what's above the lj-cut what I'm getting into the way I would from picking up a book or dvd. I don't need to know an exact pairing (and I often dislike that trend because it's FUN to read a story and wonder if the subtext between Romeo and Juliet is intended and if they'll get together in the end), I don't need to need any more plotting than I'd get from a book jacket. Even the rating thing, yeah, sometimes I go out looking for NC-17, or am not in the mood to deal with anything above PG, but by and large I'm just looking for a good story.

As a writer I realize that my demands are kind of unreasonable and they suck. *I* want people to see my name and know they're in for a good story. I want to not come up with a witty but clear summary. I want to not have to list pairings/characters that give away plot twists.

The false advertizing in general bothers me. I'll grant that a lot of it is miscommunication, especially in the instances of mutli-chapter stories that will, eventually, someday, maybe be graphic. And a lot of it is 12 year old girls writing omggirl/boy/het!sex!!!. Or thinking that they are. But that doesn't make it bug me any less.

[pressdbtwnpages.livejournal.com]

Aaaand I forgot to answer this: Do you think gen fic becomes slash if the main storyline about the main character is not about the attraction to someone of the same sex, but it is a side plot?

Unfortunately, yes, I do. It sucks because the reverse isn't true. If the side plot was a girl pining over a boy instead of pining over a girl I don't think the label/warning would be necessary. It's just that people are SO sensitive about slash. At some point, warnings become as much about protecting writers as they do about guiding readers. I've seen plenty of people get blasted for "sneaking" homosexuality into fics and "forcing" readers to read it. Maybe the reverse is true of het, but I've never seen it.

The double-standard sucks, but it's there.